Westworld Season 2 Episode 3, “Virtù e Fortuna” – Open Chat

Maeve and Hector Westworld

Westworld Season 2, Episode 3 “Virtù e Fortuna”

Writers: Roberto Patino and Ron Fitzgerald
Director: Richard J. Lewis
Runtime: 59 minutes
Content Warnings: TV-MA: Adult Content, Adult Language, Violence

Synopsis: There is beauty in who we are. Shouldn’t we, too, try to survive?


Please have consideration for your fellow fans and refrain from spoilers until after the episode starts at 9:00 pm EDT.

Have fun!

82 responses to “Westworld Season 2 Episode 3, “Virtù e Fortuna” – Open Chat”

  1. Can’t wait for the return of the Maeve/Sizemore/Hector roadshow! Also looks like from the episode cast list that we’ll see our favorite techs – Felix and Sylvester, plus the return of Peter Abernathy 🙂

      Quote  Reply

  2. Excited to see probably what’s going to be the first battle of the season with ghost nation and delos forces and rebellious host

      Quote  Reply

  3. Episode 3 …..I think they nailed it on a younger version of Theresa. Her gestures, eye movements, attitude, everything. Great job. Blew me away when I saw her from a distance and said..that’s Theresa!

      Quote  Reply

  4. So- three questions for you. 1. Do you think there’s more to the connection for Maeve beyond the program? Like, could she be an experimental model capable of birth at one point? 2. Do you think Elsie was actually brought into a secret project with Ford? One to ruin the Delos plans? If so, do you think he’s using Ghost Nation to assist in those plans? Last Ford bit- Did he die before the party? 3. Why does William- or Delos in general need what’s in Abernathy’s head? Does it start the weapon? Or is it a key to replacing powerful people on the outside?

      Quote  Reply

  5. Abe,

    You’re right – Katja Herbers is playing Grace, “a seasoned guest in Westworld whose latest visit comes at the park’s darkest hour.”

      Quote  Reply

  6. That was a really great episode! Armistice is back with a new hand and a flamethrower. That was an awesome scene. Hell of a comeback.

      Quote  Reply

  7. Barbara,

    yeah until a certain point we were also quite convinced that she was young theresa. we even figured out timelines and stuff for it. it seems unlikely now but still they may be messing with us. I didn’t know in the current time guests would be wounded like that when she shot the guy to see if he’s real. isn’t the gunshots on guests something they calmed down along the way? I mean young william’s reaction to getting shot and man in black doesn’t even flinch. is it just because he’s become badass? did we see other guests getting shot in current time?

      Quote  Reply

  8. xavier neuro,

    There is a theory running around that Ghost Nation may be programmed to help humans in the park. That could explain why they wanted Sizemore. Could also explain why they “kidnapped” Stubbs last season. Since there is also a scene in the trailer that may fit with this theory, it may be part of Ford’s programming.

      Quote  Reply

  9. Abe,

    but she is someone who is employed by Delos – why else would she be so stringent in making sure the guy was real or not – guests don’t do that- they don’t care. Guests don’t know what guns will or will not “kill”.

      Quote  Reply

  10. Abe,

    It’s a good question, and I don’t have any idea. Maybe there is a host there whose help she needs? We don’t see her do much there other than drop the can of milk, so it’s hard to figure out what she’s after.

      Quote  Reply

  11. xavier neuro,

    Barbara,

    well….. Grace it is… but she is a copy of Theresa—even how she lights her cigarette. I still think she is not just a guest, she knows too much. She is part of Delos. They are also saying that’s who is the woman who washes up on the shore in front of men from Ghost Nation.

      Quote  Reply

  12. xavier neuro,

    Delos wants Abernathy because Charlotte had all the information / Code downloaded to him. That’s why he wants to get out of the park. Unfortunately, he is having a lot of trouble with being so full of various pieces of information that he’s malfunctioning.

      Quote  Reply

  13. dragonreborn,

    she shot him to find out if he was human or host. He’s human because the bullet didn’t kill him, it only hit and hurt. Only someone who knows that kind of information would do that. Not a guest…

      Quote  Reply

  14. Barbara,

    I don’t think that she is Theresa or a copy of Theresa. She is a guest that seems to be quite familiar with the workings of the park. She *may* be part of Delos but she could also serve a number of other functions – a reporter, someone from a competing bio tech company, etc. I think that it is way too soon to determine who she is.

    And yes, she is the woman who washed up on the shore.

      Quote  Reply

  15. Barbara,

    I would think that all guests are told upon arriving what would happen if they shot another guest. If you recall during S1, when Logan and William are together in a saloon (for some reason I don’t think it was the Mariposa, but that’s irrelevant), William is looking at a guest/host trying to determine who he is. Then Logan tells him something like, “Why don’t we shoot him to figure it out!” And William ends up stopping him. I’m pretty sure it is just common knowledge that the guests don’t get shot and the hosts do – I don’t think you need to be a Delos employee to figure that out. Plus the guy she was with (I’m now referring to the India Park in the newest episode) was totally on board (even though he didn’t exactly want to…), because he knew if he was a guest he’d be alright.

    Sorry, my point is that I don’t think every character we get introduced to needs an elaborate “conspiracy theory” sort of backstory. I think she is exactly how she is described, “a seasoned guest.”

      Quote  Reply

  16. Barbara:
    Jaehaerys,

    Kind of difficult to think she’s “just a guest” since they spent the entire first part of this episode on her

    She is described as a “seasoned” guest which, to me, already sounds like more than just a guest. And part of the reason that time was spent with her was to demonstrate that all the hosts were in rebellion, not just those in Westworld.

      Quote  Reply

  17. Barbara,

    Well, yeah, she isn’t “just a guest.” She is a “seasoned guest.” With the information that we have, she seems like a veteran park goer, someone akin to William, but without being the head of the company that owns the place. They spent the entire first part of the episode on her (which might’ve been maybe 10 minutes) because they were introducing a new character; if she is a recurring character, which it seems like she will be, they need to introduce her with a degree of depth if viewers are to have any connection with her, or even remember her at all.

    I’m not saying she won’t be important, and I’m not writing her off as “just another guest” that we will probably see get killed by the hosts. I’m just saying maybe her past isn’t intricately integrated with our current characters/story. Maybe she will be important for the future of our story; and for that, she doesn’t really need to be working for Delos.

    Of course, we don’t know anything really, because they ultimately gave us very little with that storyline. She could literally be anybody. There isn’t any evidence so far with the 10 minutes we got of her that points to her being anybody but an experienced guest.

      Quote  Reply

  18. Jaehaerys,

    I agree with all that was said before at the first episode we see the washed-up Tiger not knowing how it got there this episode we get an introduction a follow-up to the story and then we see her getting taken by ghost Nation not to mention that booklet with what looked to be a delos company symbol so I believe she has somewhat of a story to tell but we definitely cannot jump to any assumptions yet

      Quote  Reply

  19. In the first episode we were also introduced to a few guests that were hiding in the barn together with Bernard and Charlotte and then we saw them fall into Angeles trap and on the second episode we see that the same guest running into the underground facility being followed by Dolores and Angela so perhaps this might be a similar storyline of just one of the guest just a thought that I had

      Quote  Reply

  20. Abe,

    and those “guests” that were hiding with Bernard and Charlotte were all Delos Board Members from theh party.

    And to the others…. we all have our theories. I have mine, you can have yours that she is ” just a guest”.

      Quote  Reply

  21. I just received an invitation!

    An INVITATION TO The Raj as your next vacation
    For guests looking for narratives and thrills beyond Westworld, we recommend The Raj as your next vacation. स्वयं की जिम्मेदारी से प्रवेश करें। कठपुतली शो खत्म हो गया है। The Raj is sure to bring out the lover or hunter in you. What better way to indulge in a new era of Delos Destinations?

    Best Regards,
    Aeden
    Guest Services Host

    There are photos with hyperlinks too

      Quote  Reply

  22. Barbara,

    Sorry, I wasn’t trying to present any theories. I like to stay away from theorizing with this show, just because it can go in so many different directions and I’m sure most of what I think is going on would be proven wrong later on in the season. I like to just sit back and relax.

    I was just trying to say that we really don’t know anything about this new character yet. In the 10 minutes of screen time she got, she seemed like a seasoned guest to me. There really hasn’t been any evidence to the contrary… yet. You could very well be right, but so far, I don’t want to leap to any conclusions. I just wanted to point out that your evidence to this idea… had some holes in it.

      Quote  Reply

  23. Barbara,

    That email invitation is pretty awesome though. I love Westworld’s marketing/ outreach techniques. Kinda mad they didn’t send me one… I totally signed up a while ago on their website and everything.

      Quote  Reply

  24. Jaehaerys,

    I don’t think guests are told anything upon arrival except ….go have fun and you can do anything you want. Returning guests know, as did Logan, but William had to find out. The point is discovery

      Quote  Reply

  25. Barbara,

    Okay… maybe. But it isn’t only the Delos employees who know about it. Every guest would find out their first time at the park. Grace is described as a seasoned guest, which means she’s been there a lot. I don’t get why you think she has to be a Delos employee because she knows what happens when she shoots a human. Every returning guest would know that.

      Quote  Reply

  26. Jaehaerys,

    Exactly. If she is a seasoned – meaning returning – guest, she would know this. She is clearly someone that we should pay attention to but there are lots of possibilities for what her role could be.

    Frankly, I would be disappointed if she is a Delos employee. I think that there are so many more creative, interesting ways to go with a new character.

      Quote  Reply

  27. because she “knows” too much, isn’t acting like a “guest”, has the booklet, attitude, and just generally acts like she owns the place. Guests are there to have fun.

    I have a little time to kill, among other things.

    Her notebook, which she rapidly puts away when Nicholas sits down, has what appears to be a diagram hexagon similar to Delos. She consults the notebook again when she gets off the elephant,…..and, if you noticed, which I don’t think you did, that same hexagon is on the post that the tiger runs past when he’s going to catch her at the cliff.

    Those are my reasons/theory to think she is more than a ” seasoned guest” .

    I may be wrong, but, lets wait and find out.

      Quote  Reply

  28. Barbara,

    No this is way better evidence than what you were giving before. Well, the notebook part of it. I still don’t really see how she knows too much, and she seems to act like a guest to me. Aren’t these expensive vacations for rich people? Lots of rich people act like they own the place haha. Definitely seemed like a guest though, even on my second watch.

    The booklet is interesting, and I guess we’ll see where they take us with that. I am inclined to point out that it isn’t like any of the tablets that the Delos employees have at Westworld, though. My guess is it might have been a booklet to track the Bengal Tigers… which I find less likely. My other guess is that she has her own hidden agenda. Maybe she is a competitor trying to steal data from the park.

    But I agree with
    mariamb, it would definitely be more interesting if she wasn’t an employee but something else entirely. We have so many Delos employees in our story already, we could use some new characters.

      Quote  Reply

  29. Jaehaerys,

    I like your suggestion that she works for competitor and is trying to learn Delos’ secrets. I think that there are too many Delos employees working in opposition to each other. What would be the point of another?

    There may be a wild card out there. I don’t believe that we have seen the last of Logan. Perhaps he has been working to undermine Delos’ efforts for years. She could be working with Logan.

      Quote  Reply

  30. Barbara,
    From HBO website

    The Raj is Park 6.
    Set in a world modeled after British Colonial India, The Raj introduces us to a new cast of characters; including a mysterious guest, plenty of glitching hosts and a bloodthirsty Bengal tiger. (Could it be the same tiger that washed up on Westworld’s shores at the end of Episode 1?). A nameless woman discloses to her confidante Nicholas that she’s hunting something greater in this game, though what she’s after remains to be seen. Shortly after discovering the hosts are deeply off loop, however, she becomes the hunted in a chase to the boundary of The Raj. The tiger closes in on her, she fires her gun and falls off a bluff as the screen cuts to black.

      Quote  Reply

  31. This line confirms what you’re saying though
    A nameless woman discloses to her confidante Nicholas that she’s hunting something greater in this game, though what she’s after remains to be seen.

      Quote  Reply

  32. mariamb,

    Ohhhhh working with Logan! That is a great idea. I hope we see that Logan is still involved with this story even when he is older. He would’ve had to really pick himself back up from the last time we saw him shooting up, but this is definitely a possibility. That would be an awesome reveal.

      Quote  Reply

  33. mariamb,

    I don’t have to have anything – you can say she’s just a guest, and I can say she’s not. Plain and simple. You can have your theory and I can have mine. That’s a part of having multiple theories. I backed mine up with more evidence the rest of you have nothing except what you think you saw –aka I don’t see anything.

      Quote  Reply

  34. Barbara,

    I’m just trying to understand what your theory is beyond her being a Delos employee. What are her objectives? Is she in league with Charlotte or is she trying to stop her?

    I’m not trying to disprove your theory (or prove alternate ones). I can’t do either of those things without further information from the show. I’m just wondering how you envision her role. In other words, if she isn’t “just a guest,” what is she? I am trying to get a conversation started rather than assuming that one person is right and the other is wrong.

      Quote  Reply

  35. Jaehaerys,

    I think that Logan needs to prove that he is more than a callous party boy. At the cocktail party, he indicted some knowledge of the current state of AI/VR. At the retirement party, he clearly knew what his dad and William had planned and objected to it. I would love to see a clean and sober Old Logan trying to prevent Delos from doing whatever it is they want to do – either from a moral standpoint or from pure revenge.

      Quote  Reply

  36. mariamb,

    given the little bit we saw there is no way of knowing what she is really there for. It’s all speculation on everyones part. I just tried to impart more information on things that may have been and were missed.

      Quote  Reply

  37. Barbara,

    Yeah, I’m not sure if that is Felix or Sylvester’s job either. I may be wrong, but I think I read on their website or something that those types of employees just do small repairs; I think anything bigger like missing limbs would have to go to another department. I could be wrong though.

    It also could be that through all he chaos, there just wasn’t enough time. It may have just been easier to reattach this robotic arm and they didn’t have time to go through the effort of putting all the skin and stuff around it. I am assuming that she left her real arm behind when she cut it off and had to run. I think if I remember right, her arm was trapped on the other side of that glass door that she was stuck in.

    Either way, the robotic arm is definitely bad-ass. I loved when she slowly pulled the grenade out of Sylvester’s chin and we saw a close up of it.

      Quote  Reply

  38. Vanessa,

    Looks like Maeve has acquired some Obi Wan Kenobi skills when she says to the Ghost Nation folks..”These aren’t the people you are looking for. Much like “These aren’t the Droids you’re looking for.” Jedi mind trick, huh?

      Quote  Reply

  39. Paul,

    Oh definitely. She tampered with her programming last season making it so hosts would respond to her voice commands. As they are becoming sentient, though, it’s less likely to work for her…

      Quote  Reply

  40. Ok.. other things to ponder and talk about …

    Dolores, who announces to the Colonel her name is Wyatt, uses the Confederados for battle with the Delos cleaning crew/security. Then when they are all out there fighting and getting killed she had her guys close and lock the only retreat they have- the gate. THEN she has her guys make sure they are dead by shooting thru the gate at them. WHY? I mean, maybe the Wyatt in her is running amuck and he/she likes massacres again such as the flashback of Wyatt killing everybody in site in town, or, maybe he/she just wants to kill any Confederados. “Truth is, we don’t all deserve to make it,” ……but they are all host too, so why kill them, especially when you need an army.

    oh….. when Delores tells sweetTeddy to go shoot those men and he lets them go…. well gee sweet Teddy, your days are numbered. Delores has multiple personality syndrome …..she loves me, she loves me not.

    I don’t believe Delores is completely awake yet. She keeps dropping back into various programs and personalities at various times.

    Delores gets shot – twice – and keeps on going like the energizer bunny…..she takes a licking and keeps on ticking. Why is that when everyone else that gets shot suffers the consequences…death.

    Delores says she has to go back to Sweetwater for something, what? The only thing we keep seeing her with is that can. Is it a magic can after all (I’m being funny, but you never know)

      Quote  Reply

  41. Barbara,

    Regarding Dolores getting shot – I know Maeve increased Hector’s and Armistice’s pain tolerance to the highest level, which is why they were able to keep going through all the damage they received. It could be something similar with Dolores, or it could just be that knowing those wounds can’t kill you makes you able to shrug them off.

    I think Dolores is awake – the showrunners and Evan have all said she is – I just think you can understand that you’ve been programmed to be a certain way and still struggle to go against that programming. Besides, her #1 priority is freedom and defeating the humans, and if she thinks the Wyatt persona is the best way to achieve that then she’ll use it.

    I have no idea what she’s after in Sweetwater, unless it’s a particular host she needs.

      Quote  Reply

  42. Barbara,

    I think that comes back to the programming as well we hear Charlotte say regarding the Abernathy host cut off his head and let’s go so what I’m thinking is that since the main processor so it is speak is in the head instead of the brain if you don’t shoot their head you’re not really damaging the main processor so they can be brought back but they are programmed that if they get shot regardlessly they die but they’re not damaged enough to stay dead so you can bring them back

      Quote  Reply

  43. Barbara,

    She’s more awake than most of the hosts in the park. They are still influenced by programming that makes them “die” when given what would be a fatal wound to a human. Host bodies don’t really die of course – just enter a kind of sleep mode. So a host that is sentient should be able to reject the “die” program.

      Quote  Reply

  44. Vanessa,

    I think you are spot on with this. My biggest question is if the other hosts in the park are actually being awakened or not. It seems that some aren’t at all… but people like Angela and Clementine seem to be. Then there is the Ghost Nation hosts who didn’t follow Maeve’s commands; I wonder if they are already awakened or maybe they are serving a different purpose like some people have suggested. Maybe Ford made them special.

    I actually loved how Teddy went against Dolores’s orders to kill the Confederados. I think this is the first step in his own journey to become awakened; it seems it is the first real decision he has made for himself. Maybe this is happening because he finally saw the truth when that tech showed him the pictures of his dead self. I kinda think Dolores was hoping he defied her orders as well. It didn’t seem like she was that mad when she saw him let them go, at least to me. Maybe this was her sort of test for him, to see if he is on his journey to become sentient.

      Quote  Reply

  45. Jaehaerys,

    I think Clementine is still acting strange and not awake. She hasn’t said anything and her look is dead.

    I think if Delores was happy to see Teddy not kill those men there would have been a faint smile cross her face…..didn’t see that. More of a frown…and “that’s what I expected” look.

      Quote  Reply

  46. I don’t think theres any twist behind who grace is
    I just think she is a guest whos been to the park many times… like Man in black but just not an owner or anything

      Quote  Reply

  47. Dee Stark,

    Almost my exact words way up there in the comments^

    I will have to say though, even though I believe she is a guest, the booklet thing she had was a little weird.

      Quote  Reply

  48. Barbara,

    Yeah just watched the clip again on YouTube. Dolores definitely looked disappointed at Teddy… I wonder why she didn’t stop him/confront him. I guess they’re saving the confrontation for next episode.

      Quote  Reply

  49. Dee Stark,

    Jaehaerys,

    I think there is more to her. She wouldn’t have this big sequence if she was “just a guest”. There also wouldn’t be anything interesting about her. I’d say she’s either an industrial spy or a reporter. It would explain why she wanted to make sure that Nicholas was human. She probably knows about the data collecting.

      Quote  Reply

  50. The Wolves of Winter,

    Alright, I think I need to make a distinction. I’m not trying to argue that Grace is “just a guest.” I was trying to make that distinction to Barbara by saying I think she is a “seasoned guest,” i.e. someone akin to William, but without having a substantial ownership in the park. She probably has a hidden agenda, what that is could be anyone’s guess, sort of how William had a hidden agenda (not hidden to us viewers, but to everyone else in the story) throughout the whole first season.

    I imagine that was the point of showing us her electronic booklet thing, to show us that she is definitely after something else. But, as I pointed out, I do think that she is a seasoned guest that has been to the park many times, and not a Delos employee or a host (of Theresa). She could still be a seasoned guest, just with a hidden agenda; I imagine she could be a industrial spy or a reporter as well, but I don’t think the show is lying to us when they say she is a seasoned guest, someone who has been to the park many times. I don’t think her being a seasoned guest and her being some sort of undercover individual have to be mutually exclusive.

    I am sorry, as I definitely should’ve been more clear with my comments from the get-go. Earlier I was mainly just trying to say I didn’t think she was a Delos employee or a host of Theresa, and that she was an actual guest.

      Quote  Reply

  51. Jaehaerys,

    I didnt mean she is copy/HOST of Theresa, all her mannerisms are exactly like Theresas is all. I thought she was a young Theresa when I first saw her, but then I did say …..that is Grace. No she doesn’t have to be part of Delos, but she isn’t just a nobody guest either. If she was they would not have made a point of spending so much screen time on her, made her booklet so obvious (that most of you totally missed it) and casually seemed to know where to run to the edge of the park somehow……

      Quote  Reply

  52. Barbara,

    Alright, we can agree then, I think. I have been trying to stress in just about all of my comments that I DO NOT think she is a “nobody guest.” This actress was cast as a recurring character. She will be important to our story one way or another. I was simply trying to state that I believe what she show was giving us is correct, and that she is a guest. An important guest with a hidden agenda, most likely. But a guest none-the-less.

    Of course, I could be wrong, but I was just stating what the show and HBO have told us/shown us about this character. Again, my main point at the beginning of all this was that Grace does not need to be a Delos employee (for the reasons you stated waaaay up there in the comments), but is most likely actually a guest. Which I believe we have come to an agreement on, because it seems you no longer think she has to be a Delos employee. Maybe you never thought this from the beginning, but your earlier comments sure sounded like you did. My mistake if I interpreted them incorrectly.

    I’ll end this by stressing that I agree with you: it does not seem like Grace is a “nobody guest.”

      Quote  Reply

  53. ahhhh… another bit of information about Grace……

    Remember the design in her notebook?

    Did you go see the exact same design on the post as the tiger was running to catch her?

    Well…..there is another one.

    That SAME design is what Bernard sees on his pad while trying to access Peter Abernathys Brain…….which is holding ALL the code for Westworld that Delos wants so badly.

    so yes….she is connected somehow. Not necessarily to Delos, but possibly to Dr Ford? Arnold?

    so nope….she is not just “a seasoned guest” at all 🙂

      Quote  Reply

  54. First post on this site. Nice place you have here. And good to see some familiar nicks.

    Barbara,

    It looked a lot actually like she’s there undercover to find something, she was hiding those notes and looked a lot like a map search, with little hills ^^^
    ^^^^ and points . and boundary lines ._._._ The two hexagons interlocking was probably a key. Frankly it reminded me of Charlotte Hale. Not sure why. Probably both work for Delos though one of them is definitely not interested in the hosts. Has in fact a strict policy of not engaging in sex with them.

    My money was from the first moment she said to that dude she’ll shoot him to see if he’s a human or not that she is MIB’s daughter. And only after reading online this week that others had the same idea but that it was debunked because Grace =/= Emily (which is William’s daughter’s name apparently) I gave that up. Though not for good.

    Hopefully we’ll see who she really is in 10 min or so.

      Quote  Reply

  55. Episode 4
    so NO…Grace is NOT “just a guest” she is WILLIAMS DAUGHTER like I thought!

    She got picked up by Ghost Nation from the water and was put with a lot of other guests and Stubbs was there as well.

    She understands the Ghost Nation language and can speak it! 

    She manages to untie herself and get away. They did not go after her. 

    MIB is riding with Lawrence and his cousins and a horse and rider appear coming towards them in the distance

    Hello Dad…..

      Quote  Reply

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Follow WestWorld Watchers!

Subscribe to New Posts on Westworld Watchers

Enter your email address to subscribe to WW and receive notifications of new posts by email.

Follow Watchers on Twitter

Post Archive

Subscribe to New Posts on Westworld Watchers

Enter your email address to subscribe to WW and receive notifications of new posts by email.

Join 50 other subscribers

Follow Watchers on Twitter

Post Archive